edit: nevermind, map doesnt really play well.

I'm all for pukka2 and the map you just posted!

played it a few times, doesnt really play that well after all.

which one was it?

phantq3dm1

I found it to be really cool, but I prolly haven't played it that much

Unless you chose "No change", you should tick 4 options in total.
I'm not so sure this poll will be so good after all...

ppl on esr are stupid, poll is still a good idea :P

you created it.

It might be a pita, but you can always export results and process them with any restrains.

Not having seen the maps yet - are they more of the usual wide-open no-strategy aim-practice bullshit that we've seen in all fps games since about 2002?

:/

Edit: Yep.

This won't be anything affiliated with ESWC, just a regular poll on ESR for the sack of generating a massive amount of "discussion" between civilized people.

Civilized people? Welcome to ESR, you must be new

Tourney4 should've never been brought back, fucking abortion of a map and yes, it was crap even with throughfloors :P

Funny thats what I think about hub, it was crap in qw and still is.

Pukka maps are really bad.

+1
pukka's only for cpma

PT4 should absolutely be replaced, it became really boring to watch in the recent tournaments, way too much mg abusing.
As a replacement I suggest pukka2. It has itself really proven as a good map, and I think nobody would regret it, if this map replaced pt4.

The next maps that should be replaced are dm6 and/or nodm9 - I think nobody would deny that both of them are great maps itself, but they have been played for way too many years now.
Understandably, nobody wants to replace them with maps that can't reach the same quality. To find decent replacements for nodm9 or dm6 is the difficult part now, I'll make a short list of possible candidates and what I think of them:

pukka5:
It may be a nice map with a balanced gameplay, but in vq3, there's more shaft abusing then on any map thats currently in the eswc mappool.
Verdict: good map, but not good enough to replace dm6 or nodm9.

cpm29:
The simple layout doesn't allow much surprising moves and shaft abusing is here a big problem, too.
Verdict: not good enough to replace dm6 or nodm9.

megadm4-09:
This map is fairly new, and I think it's a good map. It's rather small and as result, the gameplay is (imo) quite fast and aim-heavy. That might unbalance the mappool as a whole, since we already have hub and pukka2 in there, which have a similar gameplay.
Other people may play the map different than I do, so this has to be further investigated.
Verdict: must be tested more intensely - it could be a replacement

cht3:
Its big, open areas favor instant hit weapons too much.
Verdict: not good enough to replace dm6 or nodm9.

phantq3dm1:
This is the newest map in this list, and I can't say much about it, since I only played a early version of it versus human opponents. It looks really good (not just the visuals, also the layout) and it needs to be tested desperately.

I will be doing another Q3Revoluzzers Cup in the near future - more information soon.

On a sidenote:
I working on a duel map myself -> http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1657333

out of 35 ppl, 16 have read/understood the text and how to vote, and voted properly till now

That's because it's stupid:

svalur voted: Replace one map, Replace two maps, Use another new map, Keep pro-nodm9

I don't want to see pukka2 or 5 anywhere near any serious competition, I don't want to see pt4/pdm6 anywhere near any serious competition. So that gives me the above options one of which is a wasted vote on my behalf since Replace Two Maps kinda of suggests replacing one map would be ok.

Really it should have just been about which maps should be removed and have pro-q3tourney4, pro-q3dm6, hub3aeroq3, pro-nodm9 and ztn3tourney1 in it.

And another poll with a 5 map selection of "new" maps (pukka2/6, neduel, some others).

slightly offtopic, ranking the old maps by how much they are actually played, the result would be:
#1 dm6
#2 t4
#3 nodm9

hope t4 gets replaced by one of the pukka maps, i enjoyed both maps, but judging from the votes of ppl who have played more on the new maps and play better anyway, the choice should be pukka3t2

thats not true, pt4 is the least played map:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1589198

was ^talking about public play, that why i said its slightly offtopic, should have mentioned it though^^

even in public play t4 is the least played one

havent played q3 since 3-4 month, but i guess it did not change much. i had the feeling that t4 was played more.
i have played a lot ql lately and i can say for sure, that in ql, dm13 is played way less than t4

duh, ql is a whole different matter, also dm13 is unplayable in ql due to the ridiculous rocket splash

i havent seen anyone play pt4 in q3 in months on a public ;)

I SEEN SOMEONE PLAY

Replacing it with a map that will be played less, :/

what?

do you even play quake?

fucking germans

until we have better maps to replace the current maplist i vote no change

Anything to get DM6 out.

dm6 and pt4 out, pukka3t5 and phantq3dm1 in and mb replace hub3aeroq3 with pukka3t2

Replace one map, Use another new map (hub3tourney1), Keep pro-q3dm6, Keep pro-nodm9

[x] Fix gameplay

hub3tourney1 (y)

Wonder how it plays in vq3 ;/

keep dm6? are you fucking real?

couldn't come up with a 2nd good map to replace dm6, and rather t4 gone than dm6. :<

Where is the "Select a new map pool" option?

Has anyone tried akumacpm1a in VQ3? I'd be interested to know how it plays. It may not work at all as it was designed for CPM of course.

butcher and i played a few games of good ol' cpm1a in vq3
i feel like it played great

cpm1a != akumacpm1a

'=]

new maps for qlive, until then, same ole same ole

DM6 needs to go. T4 also, provided a good enough map is found.

NE_Duel anybody? I always thought that map was worthy for competition even though few have played it.

I quite like ne_duel too.

STUPID POLL

STUPID POLL

STUPID POLL

this exceeds the stupidity of gillz

fuck the voting and community effort, it creates too much whine and bullshit

pick two new maps and force it, it is that simple

it was done with 1a 15 and hub and they picked one out of those and that was a breath of fresh air

ps:

i don't care if it's not an official poll, ESWC are already considering change and they are known to keep an open ear and this is the exact type of shit they need to avoid

The complete idiocy out if you is both hilarious, and ridiculous.

he is right tho.

Right about what? That ESWC will just 'know' to pick the new maps we want, and 'know' which ones to replace them with?

At least this gives them a general idea of what we want. Sure, it needs more options for newer maps, and we need voting to determine which maps to replace, but at least it's a start.

Either this, or we just ESWC roll the dice, and probably just frustrate us even more. I'll play whatever the map pool is, I don't care. But, I rather have a community poll like this, then to let them take a shot in the dark and assume they know what we want.

the community don't know what they want, they're all fucking idiots mostly

just check xerp whine, eswc 04 whine, cpm vs vq3 whine, early hub days whine, early pro-nodm9 whine, balance whine, monitor whine, the list is fucking endless

oh and just about everything that has ever changed in Q3, you get either pretty much 50/50 split or a majority for no change

for 2004 ESWC said ok we're throwing these three new maps into the pool, no questions asked as far as I recall they just done it and the one seemed likeable enough to be continued, that's all they have to do

if QLAN and previous VQ3 games were anything to go by then ESWC sure as hell didn't pay attention when picking CPM1A for VQ3 that's for sure

T4 needs to go for sure, it's boring.

DM6 - well this map has provided some really sick and best games in Q3 history. I don't agree that is 'too much random' as I don't believe that first spawn declares the winner. If you are good enough, you will win even with the YA spawn. Personally I love to watch DM6 fights with good players, I enjoy it A LOT more than ztn *zzzzzz* games.

I would like to see new maps as well, but I have mix feelings about those pukka maps. I've seen couple of games on those with Spart1e, zik and noctis, and as far as I remember it wasn't *that* exciting. But again, the thing is, I didn't know maps well and it could be a huge factor.

I think that there are really plenty other good maps out there but people just don't know about them. Another thing is, that I'm quite sure that half of Q3's ESWC attenders won't learn those new maps and will try to avoid them as much as possible.

People are lazy, game is old.

I'd say:
-T4 out, DM9 out
+Add 2 new maps

I agree, the games I find most enjoyable to watch is dm6 and t4 games.
But t4 has been my homemap since 2000, so thats normal i guess :p

monsoon for fucks sake

it was the best thing to come out of q4

and is retartedly shit in q3

word
edit: At first I answered no change, but now that you mention monsoon I changed my mind. Out with t4 and add monsoon. Its combat proven and with a few tweaks (rail area + lg to rl) its ready to go.

tossing t4 and nodm9 for pukka3tourney2 and q3nem06 would be the best option imo.

i like q3nem06


also, has anyone tried pukka3dm1 already?

its map for 2x2

shit discussion.

ESWC should just tell the community what to play, because the community will not be able to make a joint descision.

p.s hub3aeroq3 MUST stay.

pukka3tourney2 is awesome!





OR back to OSP and lets see some t2 "action"

pukka3tourney2 have a second version, at name p2t2-v2, may be need using his ?

There is so many cool maps:
d3tourney3, ospdm8, rota3dm2, rage (q2 for q3) !

could you pls upload the d3tourney3 map? I cant find it anywhere.

http://lvlworld.com/dl.php?id=455&ftp=lvl&zip=druzli

maps: dm_fora-rage, rota3dm2, d3tourney3.
http://www.sharemania.ru/0125709

Maybe I could make a vq3 map, but then I need massive feedback help. I can't surpass ztn or Tim Willits(except when it comes to item placement :D) by myself. Would this slot to be filled require a more open atrium connected stuff like dm6 OR kind of single room with corridors around ala aerowalk/dm13 OR room-corridor-room stuff ala ztn? What about size? Small/Large? Easy path-prediction or more movement options?

Ideas?

yes, make a vq3 map!
i think we need somethink like ztn medium/large size, 2 or at least 1 tele, ra+2ya+mega, mb with some elements of pro-q3dm6. personally i want 2 or at least 1 high jumppad like in dm6 but a little bit less open than in dm6. and possibility to play map in 2x2.

I agree with extone - a medium/large sized map is needed - less open then dm6 and less easy to predict the opponent would be perfect. If I can help you with anything (testing etc) let me know.

as long as you at least have to perform a double rocketjump to get lg it will probably be good.

Cooller would win every match on that map then.

He's that good at rocketjumping?

He was always Double RJing off the wall to the RA on ztn!

Now that you mention it, that does ring a bell.

BEST PLAYER EVER

I like dm6 but you get the shit spawn its just an uphill battle. nodm9 played by pro's is awesome to watch. Pukka2 has a nice flow to it and fast game play - I'd chuck that in prolly, maybe it needs pro-ing up a little.

pt4 is a really great map with very high skill requirements. i won't argue about it though because noone has ever agreed with me except very top tiered players.

I've always thought PT4 was a way better map than pro-q3dm6 and hub3aeroq3.

You need better aim with more weapons, better positioning, better timing, better spawn fragging skills, better prediction. Basically the only things PDM6 and hub3aeroq3 have over PT4 are that they have an RA and an LG.

I'll never for the life of me understand the people who dismiss pt4 as an "all aim no brain map," but then vehemently defend hub. It doesn't make sense.

I was in the same boat as you but as I've improved at hub and the skills of the map have developed past what czm was doing I've come to appreciate it a bit more.

but it's still fucking annoying

saying that, hub and nodm9 are the only two maps that tend to balance out when it comes to weapon usage

pro-q3dm6, ztn3tourney1 you have 70% shaft kills or more, and pro-q4tourney4 rail and mg

hub and nodm9 are split pretty equal

No offense, but what does that have to do with my comment?

I'm saying that I agreed with what you're saying, yet my views lean towards hub defending the more I've played the map.

not particularly hard to understand really.

I never expressed an opinion on hub, positive or negative. I just wondered how you can defend one map and bash the other.

Maybe it's just because you're not as skilled on PT4 as HUB though?

I wouldn't stand a chance on hub3aeroq3 against you (probably, no idea actually) but if I play well on PT4 I can do pretty well. Our best games were always the PT4 ones.

The current mappool is pretty perfect as it is, t4 and dm13 are mixing in the much needed weapon variations from ztn/dm6/hub..

If they should ever replace one of theese, they should replace the it with a map that contains the same weapons as the one they removed.

Like Aaron said further up, players have no idea or concept on what they want, let alone what they need or what is best for the game. They would rather have short term instant gratification (e.g. hub3aeroq3 spawn fragging) than the long term gratification involved at really seeing masters/mastering a map (e.g. zero4 playing PT4 or cooller on ztn).

I used to love hub3aeroq3 after ESWC 2004 and it probably took up most of my dueling time at that point. Mostly it was down to it being the easiest the pickup with my TDM skillset. Prior to this I had barely dueled at all with only the occasional ztn game.

It's strange that the majority seem to end up favouring the two maps which, for me, bring out the absolute worst elements of VQ3 (pro-q3dm6 and hub3aeroq3) and hate the ones that bring out the stronger elements (q3dm13 and pro-q3tourney4).

PT4 may be a flawed map but it's flawed in a somewhat beneficial way, pdm6/hub are just downright ugly with their flaws.

i'm agree with you !!!
but when you spec event like ESWC, prot4 is the worst map to spec, prefer watch some duel on pukka2 or another ramdom map.

Maybe for you, but not for me.

I like t4, very tactical and requires very good positioning and weapon use but 7 damage mg kills it. Watch some rapha demo's on it.

Drop dm6 at least. PT7 is a better map imo.

PT7 is rather harshly ignored and has never been given a good chance to win everyone over.

Would love to see it added over pdm6.

I think there should of been a voting process that would of LEAD to this. I don't like either PUKKA maps, so why should I be forced to pick those?

=\

by now it should be apparent that nobody gives a fuck what you think anyway,

besides, this is nothing official anyway, but you would have known that if you would have actually read it.

Ever think ESWC has considered changing it and might reference this for information?

Also, some people do care what I think. Get over yourself and troll someone else.

ppl should take a look at those 2 maps imho:

http://www.lvlworld.com/#c=m8&i=1913&...p;p=review
http://www.lvlworld.com/#c=m8&i=1941&...p;p=review

that other pukka-map you mentioned way up looks fun, too.

another + for those 2 maps i just posted is, the mapper is still active and could maybe improve them still (both could use some clipping work)

nice maps but both give me fps drops

rota3tourney1
i like how rota maps look but all this maps too flat or something and too open for duel

too flat?

did you even take a look at them? (both got 3 floors)

ok. it was long ago. rota3dm1 is not flat and has not bad potential.
author is really active. he released 2 maps (rota3ctf2 and rota3tourney1) in 1 month but rota3tourney1 (his official first duel map) is even less suitable for duel and this is disaponting.
i prefer him to make rota3tourney2 with feedback from esr

i never mentioned rota3tourney1... ;)

Chuck Norris should make a map.

But only chuck norris could play on it :(



And Cooller...

Chuck himself shouldn't be allowed to play, rockets would be too scared to hit him and fly right back at you instead.

out with t4 and dm6

megadm4-09 and monsoon in

pukkat2 for dm6 would be good(but it's not all that improvement in the end, so i don't care)
t4 it's fun to watch cause of his unique play style (it's not a great map though, and only a few players are worth watching in there)
nodm9 must stay (it just plays perfectly)

pukkat2 also seems the best of all custom maps i tried

so basically no change

why the sudden desire for new maps? been watching too much starcraft or something?

where have you been during 2003-2008?

Replace at least pro-q3dm6, so borring and not balanced to play.

The better player always win on the map. It's not unbalanced. It's all about mapcontroll, like any other map(except for pt4)

PT4 is about map control just as much as the others.

not like other maps. When having the mapcontroll on other maps you have 100 200 or 200 200. in pt4 100 50 or almost max 100 100.....It's more about aim and shit on pt4. And smart playing/luck.

You mean item control.

no , mapcontroll! well, itemcontroll and mapcontroll is just the same :D

Disagree but it doesn't matter.

Keep pro-q3tourney4: 7.7% (30)
DIAF :(

i'm surprised nodm9 is more popular than dm6, i can't stand the slowness of nodm9.

both maps can be played slow and fast.

yes but u cant run very far in dm9 without hitting a wall

If any maps should be replaced, it should be hub :/

But id rather just keep it as it is, no reason to add speedbumbs to a footballfield when they learn the layout of the field.

pukka3dm1 is great

and rota3dm1 could be great as well with a stair fix :p

Last few years I was mapping just for fun, I was SURE that nobady play it because everybody play ztn and dm6.. :) And now I see that its not true.. you are talking about my map that is just somewhere in map queue on lvl .. wow..
So please, Should be a rota3tourney1 a good map ? If yes,
What should I change ?

i have no idea about rota3tourney1, that map didn't really look that useable at all tbh, but rota3dm1 could be very good imho. It seems like you had playerclips on all of the stairs, would be a good start if you could remove them. And maybe rework some of the stairs alltogether. Not sure i would change much more tho. ;)

Also there were a few areas where you could hide with a rocket jump and not get found unless the opponent knows it.

Ok, I will repair it.. But I think that the brushwork is so complicated.. And I wanted to rebuild whole map into more simple walls, floors,..
What do you think that is the best possibility?:

old version:
http://pictureup.cz/picture/verejny/17891789a.jpg

new version:
http://pictureup.cz/picture/verejny/21352135b.jpg

new version with old textures: (somebody told me that darker textures are better)
http://pictureup.cz/picture/verejny/75037503c.jpg

Thank you,..
rota

ah nice, ye, removing all those bumps in the floor is a good idea, also agree with the old textures (darker textures are generally better on the eyes no matter what settings you use. If you can keep the brushwork simple but still make the map look good in highquality, that would be perfect :)

hello, I am still working on the map and I guess that the new version will be much better, but I would really like to know your opinion about some changes that exton did in his topic: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661697
I mean that 3 changes in my comment that I post today.

(As soon as I will have some playable version, I will create my own topic for beta testing)

thanks