not my trouble

Why would she be wrong?

She's very brave and unselfish, very mature behaviour. It's definitely her choice, I hope she does well without the heart transplant.

shes not brave. so obvious that shes scared of having the transplant cos of death & her life will be even shorter

Well, like she said, it's a dangerous operation and there's a big line for heart transplants, it could go to someone else, and she could get Leukemia again. I'm sure she had to go against quite a few people who thought she should have the heart transplant, parents and that child protection officer etc.

Good of her to stand up for herself.

thought the same thing

of course its right. taking her to court to go against such a decision is wrong

I hope this gives some perspective to the millions of stupid emo teens that plague the planet.

that's pretty stupid.. and incredibly selfish.

Selfish? Can you explain what's selfish about it?

because she's just an ignorant little girl and it is selfish to her family to take a position that the actual doctors felt so strongly about that they considered going to court about?

so the doctors and the family were selfish?

no, the girl is.

I disagree.

she does it for herself and another patient and his / her family (who has most likely better chances of recovering)

The parents do it for their child (of course) but also for themselves to not lose her and also so they know they did everything possible. Even if the procedure might be a torture for the child.

Same goes for the doctors, they don't want to risk losing their patient and they want to tr everything possible too.


So imo out of those three groups the child is the least selfish.

NO U

She is the one in real pain and who has to suffer through it. Choosing to go on just so now one else will be sad about it is not fair for her.

forcing the procedure on her would be an infringement upon her rights. it's completely immoral to override her decision, which only effects her and no one else.

in this case I tend to agree.
But generally speaking going against a child wishes is immoral.


As a friend of mine put it:

You don't expect a 8 year old child to make an educated decision about which clothes it wants t wear during a blizzard.

that's true, but this girl is, in my opinion, experienced enough with illness to be able to make this decision herself.

as I said, this time at least from what you can tell from an article yes.

but it's not a general infringement on her rights!

i'm speaking on principle, when i said rights. wasn't talking about law.

Of course it is. I don't understand why it wouldn't be.

Wow, you crave to be picky about everything, huh?

That's a pretty stupid 8-year-old.

you don't know much about kids, do you?

I don't get your friends' point or the connection. What are the presumptions? That a typical second grader lives locked inside a vault in diapers, with no human contact / parents and has no biological sense of cold/hot?

At least that's how i grew up. Dunno why it should be wrong for anyone else?!

Is there a point to this?

my friend has three kids. Oldest is 14 by now.

and if you actually had contact with children you would know that they base most of their decision o how they feel like and not logical arguments. And if they do think it makes sense it doesn't mean it really does.

E.g. When I was around seven or eight I decided it would be smart to put on my school clothes before going to bed. Would save time in the morning :P



How about this: We ask nicky, she's got kids ;)

kids do what is easy for them at the time, they dont think of the consequences of their actions.

if this was me in this position i wouldn't want my child to be put under the pressure of having to make such a huge decision at that ago. IMO it should be the parents that choose the outcome, after all its the parents that know the child best and have her interests at heart not the doctors and not the courts

May I ask you what would of been your opinion had the child wanted the operation, but not her parents?

then then parents need a good talking to. bugs me when ppl refuse stuff on religious grounds etc

Contrary to your belief I actually have experienced childhood. What you described about intuitive decisions, in my experience, can easily be applied to most adults aswell. Should government or someone else have the right to interfere in their cases aswell?

I'm more and more believing you still are in your childhood.

I childishly dream about freedom, equality and human rights :/

you were the one who didn't want immigration, yet you pretend to believe in equality.

sounds childish to me, yes

After basically writing an article about it for you how I would want to start a new immigration program that would integrate through freemarkets having the greatest benefit for all parties.

If you talk about the humanitarian immigration - How is it equality that we single out 4-5000 people out 190 million and give them all the luxuries while everyone else leaves there to suffer, while turning our backs to the reason of their suffering?

And you're a pretty stupid 18-25 year old.

I wasn't talking to you, helper monkey.

yeah, as if becks needs help to tear your stupid theoretical assumptions about childhood apart.

Theoretical assumptions?

indeed.

So let me get this straight - there is no empiric evidence for the wild crazy theory that a typical 8-year-old (a person that has travelled to school and back for 1,5-2,5 years or so with all it's seasons) might know what to wear during cold winter?

you're such a thick cunt, you leave me speechless.

oh wow you really are inexact.

the point was never whether a child might know that. It was whether you should never question it, even if the chioce is red sandals and a Peter Pan costume.

There is a difference between If one is physically/intellectually capable
of executing these tasks and whether they are willing to.

For a reference, society expects 7-year-olds (may vary) to be accountable for their own actions
in the court of law.

where? in what countries?

There is a difference between If one is physically/intellectually capable
of executing these tasks and whether they are willing to.

yes great and where exactly did I imply intellectual ability??? Are you even able to stay ontopic??

[q]For a reference, society expects 7-year-olds (may vary) to be accountable for their own actions
in the court of law.

again not even close to what i was saying.
A) In this country it's 18 (in some cases 21) for full accountability.
B) This applies if the actions hurt someon else. not when the child is neglient of itself.


I bet you recite poems in a math exam...

At Scotland it's the mentioned 8, I vividly remember my class about the law stuff in Finland where it was 7, but the punishment may have a major difference to adults. I can't find it with any quick keywords I tried. For law people, and of course for you because you gonna make a scene of it to cover your complete retardness about human development, it makes a world of difference. For the sake of argument it doesn't change fact that the law makes these people to distinguish right from wrong.

http://www.youngscot.org/channels/law/?ss=131...amp;ID=429

"retardness about human developmen"

and another attempt at switching the topic.

discussions with you are becoming incredibly boring...

oh and btw, "found guilty" is not the same as either punished and/or "held accountable"

This is obviously a symptom of paedophilia. Overrating kids rationality -> Just like thinking kids can love you.

Hi Paedo.

hahaha

Weren't you the one supporting gay marriage? Just a thought...

? Please continue.

Obviously a symptom.

Of respecting the right of bi & homosexuals?

Yet I'm not respecting the rights of children?

Bi/homosexuals aren't insane. Children are.

Bi/homosexuals aren't insane. Children are.

You're lying...























...I bet there's some insane swedes.

? Dun get :(

I am taking the Stallman (GNU guy) stance on gay marriage. Allowing it would piss off exactly the type of people I detest with a passion (conservatives and religious nuts) so I just have to support it. Not sure about them adopting kids tho, cant quite avoid the bias in raising them.

Yeah but disallowing it might turn the majority against them. The less hip-cool image for brainless young people they have, the more they're digging their own grave. Something to think about. I personally would love to see the whole middle-eastern cult to ski to a fuck from this country and the whole western civilisation.

http://www.pimpmybible.com/

no no, it's alright.

I like to leave the easy stuff to my disciples ;P

i wonder what he'll come up with to disprove the fact that children are unreasonable.

Or disprove flying teapot orbiting the mars.

childern may be unreasonable but they're not brainless. a child can have a very good idea about things, often time better than the adult. If this girl spent more than half of her life in hospital I say she has a pretty damn good idea what it's about. agreed?

agreed.

and how exactly were they planning to do the op if the it had gone to court and hospital won? hold her down and pull her heart out?? kinda barbaric

they could slip her a mickey

It's her decision and it's a good one : plz DIE litlle girl :D

. . .......

Hey i'm just joking :p

Seriously i think that her parents are pretty irresponsible and that they should force her to do this operation ...

fuck off

why h8 ?

better h8 than hi5
both not my trouble, anyway

Needs moar House imo

yea too bad she has a diagnosis already .. :P

But you know how it always goes with House.

If a patient is diagnosed before being admitted to House. X doctor who made that diagnose is wrong.

SO GO HOUSE

GO,

It's lupus.

You are wrong, it is MS

It's always lupus.

Wrong, Vitamin D deficiency

surely she can get a trip to disnleyland out of this ... or was that her plan all along ?

Considering there's a good chance she will further complicate her health and chance of survival by going through with the operation...I don't see why it's a big deal if she chooses not to go through with it. I think she is old enough to make a decision like this, especially considering the amount of experience she already has with health care. Since the heart has a better chance of saving someone else in need rather than herself, I think it's rather respectable she chooses to give it to someone else.

what if she will be a serial killer when she grows up?!?!€?€! i think very good he die now :p

life is made of choices, she made her own choice and i think she is a very brave girl. I'm guessing she just can't fucking take it anymore and dying from a heart attack ain't the worst thing isit?