You still play CPMA because the majority of VQ3 players like it or are indifferent to it. There isn't some secret underground server admin cult which forces all the admins that use it to keep using it, they either do because they want to or see no reason not to.

You're welcome.

He said he didn't want comments from the cpma pm1 players, stupid!

we're not playing pm1 anymore, stupid!

OSP will be back.

I'd be surprised if rhea came back.

are you going to wish really really hard and make it so?

cpma vq3 movement sucks, netcode makes the lg king online and rl almost useless.
/rant

and osp makes the game feel like playing 1 sec delay where lg is useless.

I prefer useless lg over useless rl any day.

learn to aim, then the rl isn't useless...

cg_laghax "0"

haha, dude, lg is the same.

its just that people can hit more with better netcode.

and hitboxes as big as ...duno...fken big

same size

hmm..are you sure?

i thought they were bigger in cpma

No, exact same size :p

then even more credit to the netcode than i thought it deserved befo..

where ofc, just dismissing some code that dealed a 50ms delay by deafault deserves not as uch credit..but i guess there is other things to it as well.

LOL

TYPICAL DUMB REPLY

Objects in Rear View Mirror May Appear Larger Than They Are

I like CPMA, but OSP is fine too, to me it doesn't really make a difference, but on high ping CPMA is way better.

I was just trying to understand, why do we use CPMA?
and I came to an answer, that it isnt the netcode or hud. I found that its the CPL who brought us to play CPMA. And this is really painful, if you look what kind of organisation CPL is.. and that the reasons why they picked CPMA are very doubtful after we became the real face of CPL.

We play cpma because it is a mod that is still supported - just look at the rocket splash bug they fixed lately. Also things like the improved netcode, huds and a better GUI are major improvements to the game - why should anyone refuse them?

the netcode is hacked, not improved, and gives you random hits, imba shaft and guys with ping 100 hitting better if they play with 10.
I think that the features of CPMA arent always positive. The HUD thingie made me mad, because I wanted my fucking OSP hud...

cpma's movement is different, I dont know which one is true tho..
osp is smoother than cpma.

still, we play cpma not because its better, because even if its better, then not in all parts.

most of us play it because its better and we like it more than osp and wouldnt give it a fair chance before

Maybe CPMA isn't better in all parts, but if it's better than most, then CPMA IS better isn't it? The thing you're talking about with the netcode giving 100 pingers an advantage is just plain bullshit, either that or you're playing on a server that hasn't been restarted in 2 months, and if you don't like it: cg_laghax 0 and you can aim similarly to how you did in OSP (I say similar because it's still an improvement over OSP even with laghax disabled.)

Ye..., I regularly play in eu from america with 160ish ping and I'll tell you, the game gives no breaks for a player of high ping..., but its 100x better then anything else I've played with *any* ping, period.

"The HUD thingie made me mad, because I wanted my fucking OSP hud..."

I find it hard to believe you can't get a close approximation (and in many cases something better if you bother) by using the SuperHUD system to make a custom HUD,

Do you really think he has the ability or follow through to do that?

yeah fuck cpma dev crew for giving people with 100 ping a chance

and fuck cpma dev crew for giving fully customizable hud

FUCK THEM AH YEAH

and random hits? lol? wheres your proof on that?

i think if you look back to just before the CPL announced their use of CPMA, you'll find that the Q4MAX team, namely arqon, was providing direct support to CPL q4 events. i'm fairly certain that the relationship born from that support helped arqon's q3 CPMA preference get into the CPL's ear.

since then, i believe there's a combination of several reasons as to why we haven't switched back. the biggest one, in my opinion, is active support. no matter how much i might find 3 or 4 particular features of OSP to be far superior to offerings from CPMA, the fact of the matter is that in the end, CPMA has a development team with open ears and the potential to make enough advances to render OSP obsolete. it's just unfortunate that their minds don't follow suit.

these days, it's difficult to say which mod is superior in my opinion. i like the netcode, movement, and certain client settings from OSP that simply no longer exist in CPMA. an overwhelming number of players agree with me. the worst part of it is that contrary to what is found in the qw/q2/q4 communities and even other mod cultures within q3, our active support refuses to acquiesce to our requests and goes so far as to berate us for making those requests because it's outside of THEIR vision for the game that WE'VE been playing for 8 or more years in some cases.

this begs the question: if active support is one of the main reasons to continue with CPMA as opposed to OSP or perhaps even a new mod, isn't the point invalidated by the fact that they're not actively supporting the users?

an overwhelming number of players agree with me.

Where? Quake doesn't have an overwhelming following.

the phrase "overwhelming number" is relative to the size of the group being referred to

Where is this overwhelming number of people?

under your desk

Nobody there except my wife. =O

o shi-

then who's under my desk:<

don't mind me, just sitting here

you sound like one of those guys who got so used to osp shit netcode they dominated people just because of it. now there's a more level playing field and you're no longer that good. surprise surprise...

no.

No its a fix not a hack, i wish they'd make germen connects have that fastpath thing that gave u all 100 ping then we'll see if u like cpm better than osp

Also im guessing u being germen u dont play outside of germany so you cant really comment on netcode stuff

QuakeLive is coming ...
so i dont bother myself anymore.

Lets all unite at ql !

as long as you're not there

Oh.
My.
God.

using cpma is one of the few good choices the cpl made

Not that much need for unity when there's nothing to unite around anyways..

ye, lets just wait for quakelive

lets wait for asteroid or aliens I say, come ye Chinese and Middle-eastern brethren, for we fight common enemy!

UT3 is already among us!

that's no astroid/alien, that's islam/terrorism! ;D

I thought there were a few chinese and middle eastern people in this site with whom we can unite in the eternal hate of ut

:P

xD

well. if u put it this way; osp is rake and cpma is tiny seed of hope. and i would rather stuck that tiny seed of hope up in my ass than whole rake. which makes cpma also better tha osp is: everything, ofc movement feels much nicer and smoother than in cpma. but why the fuck would anyone whine about that how that movement feels when everything else is inferior to cpma ?

Familiarity + morons

Because I prefer CPM gameplay?

Yeah, that's it. :P

CPMA is the superior mod...

another useful comment in your life?

only nazis play osp

outargued

Active support. That's why.

Next.

please define active support.
read the changelog, how much of fixes and features in it would be needed for the last OSP release? I think less than 5%.

"please define active support."

Means it's active. If there is a bug, it will be fixed right away. It doesn't mean there will be X many features added each release. It means there are people who can address problems if they do arise. As opposed to DEAD support, like in OSP, which doesn't have a site anymore and can't be downloaded.

http://www.google.com/search?q=download+osp+1.03a

I'll quote you on this one;
"I want to avoid answers like "its better", "osp was old", "netcode" and so on.."

then you say;
"I don't know if CPMA is better than OSP. my personal opinion: CPMA is not better than OSP."

so, what makes you still wanna play OSP?

I would pick CPMA over OSP any day because of Multi-view-demos, improved netcode(yes, it does matter), Challenge Quake 3 executable, new simpleicons and tons of bugfixes and other stuff.

I said that I personally think that cpma is NOT better.

mvd demos are ugly, sound is fucked and they look unsmooth². The netcode does matter but it should be correct please and not allow ppl to hit things they did not.

as people played OSP nobody switched to CPMA just because it is better(btw it was not better in 2005). we changed because of CPL

You can still play OSP. No?

"new simpleicons"

go to the corner, stand next to lukrek..fags

...why? its the better mod, duh!

had OSP been continually developed it would've likely ended up exact as CPMA is now

so you still lose

nostradamus?

no, it has been stated many times by members of the development team

fuck, as far as I remember arqon actually made a thread here asking if people wanted a continuation of OSP yet warned them it would end up as CPMA currently is. (someone correct me if I have this wrong).

...and so OSP was discontinued, because PEOPLE DID NOT WANT IT RUINED.

...yeah?

are you that fucking stupid?

OSP is in a certain way.

arQon proposes to either change OSP to CPMA, or make CPMA leaving OSP alone.

People pick the latter.

Conclusion drawn: People did not think CPMA was better and should replace OSP.

Where and how is your special logic deviating, e-badass?

afair he said something like "no point in updating OSP (as a 2nd mod) as the next OSP release would look exactly like CPMA 1.3x VQ3 (whatever version the switch happened)"

so either stick to the old OSP 1.03a or use CPMA, any updated version of OSP would be CPMA VQ3 anyway (CPMA loading screen says CPMA/OSP therefore).

I am pretty sure he actually asked want people wanted / were interested in.

then went against it, as you said because in the end it was totally pointless.

could be, cba to search the thread.. this topic is so old :D

ye can't believe people are still bitching about it

OLD SHAFT NOW YOU NAZI BASTARDS

shaft is different, i want 1.43 back ;/

the shaft is fucking rooted now, christ.

people that hate cpma are those that suck at promode because there are people that can actually aim, as opposed to osp players where nothing works, mg for example with above 30 ping.

thats another story. arquon tells us everyday that pm1 is the revolution...

we talked about vanilla mode!

Get your facts straight, please. CPMA only has legacy support for PM1 aka PMC gameplay. PMC became obsolete years ago.
PM1 is NOT a synonym for the current CPM gameplay mode, ffs!

"people that hate cpma are those that suck at promode"

What a stupid comment, hating CPMA VQ3 has nothing at all to do with hating CPMA CPM.

"because there are people that can actually aim, as opposed to osp players where nothing works, mg for example with above 30 ping."

What an stupid comment, where are these extremist retards coming from? You're pretty much matching and topping diablo here. I could aim just fine with 100 ping in OSP, I can do so much better in CPMA at 100 ping. Just because CPMA is better than OSP doesn't mean OSP was utter shit and NOTHING WORKED in it.

Some TDM had moved over to CPMA before the CPL.

Thanks.

and me and Yeltsin were playing it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before the CPL picked it up.

professionals and all that

timefraggers is what u is

Expertly put

weeeeeeeeeeee

Why don't you make a list of things OSP offers that CPMA doesn't?

As far as I can see your problem is A) You can't ping rape people anymore B) The movement is slightly different and C) You can't setup your net settings/HUD.

I've never experienced any shots that shouldn't have hit (I presume you're talking about rail shots here) from me or against me. Whine about this nearly always comes from people used to very low pings playing against people with higher pings who don't utterly rape them like they did in OSP. The others have fucked up configs.

At the moment I can think of one thing I wish CPMA had, Team Overlay customisation added to the HUD file.

I think his beef is with the fact that a lot of people (or a few who knows) preferred OSP's netcode .. which before you demolish me in pro-CPMA banter was pretty fucking solid on a good ping.

God even in the 100's it was playable. However CPMA's is much, much better - but lawdy does it feel like complete rubbish at times.

Please consider this too. CPMA allows players/teams from further afield to actually compete with each other on far more even grounds. More players compete = good.

i hope understood it right, then i could say that cpma also splits the community, see q3 ctf community

but the split already happened, you just cant reverse it any more...

Yeah but even the q3ctf community are starting to "come round" to CPMA.

which wont happen until cpma fixes the movement. ctf is not playable with the cpma today

Er, I said they are already "coming round" to CPMA.

proof? :D
afaik jolt, cb, kuh3 and net-leet are still using osp...

I see far less "hatred" towards cpma now than a year ago and a lot of ctf players are playing cpma in tdm/1vs1 now and getting used to it.

that's personal opinion m8, not proof

i'd like to use CPMA for the better features but trickjumps will get fucked in CTF, and we all know the maps arent gonna be remade

w8 for quake live i guess

I didn't state it as some kinda ultimate TRUTH. It was more a statement of my observations.

I'm just wondering which "tricks"/"jumps" etc are now not possible in CPMA VQ3 CTF? I haven't played CTF for some time and I can't think of any on the standard used maps which are no longer possible or even significantly harder.

some examples

ctf2:
- lower bouncepad to left/right high
- mid bouncepad to left/right high
- rj from ledge above flag to either side while falling down

cp15:
- bouncepad, strafejump over spikes on mid
- strafejump next to bouncepad to mid
- bouncepad, strafejump just besides spikes and strafe back to the slope

I seem to remeber being able to do all of those cp15 ones in cpma (No idea about ctf2 though)

ur right, just tried them myself

cp15 ones all work in CPMA
ctf2:
lower bouncepad to left/right high works too
mid bouncepad doesnt work though, and thats a commonly used one
the third trickjumps isnt really used in competition so who cares

can't really think of other trickjumps on top of my hat that wouldn't work in CPMA

so there's one bouncepad that doesn't work in cpma? blimey me, that's major.

indeed, it isnt

Actually I had a positive view towards cpma before I got to know it. Now as I´ve played cpma for a while I hate it more and more by the day wish that arqon gets trampeled by an elephant everytime someone from an rural region of europe with a ping next to three digits has the topshots or shafts me away while being popped up by a rocket or smth...

yeh, because someone with a bad connection can't possibly be a better player than you.
LOWEST PING ALWAYS WON GAMES AND IT SHOULD STAY THAT WAY FOREVER!!!!!

DAMN THOSE SKILLED HIGHPINGERS, WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?! LET'S ALL PUT ON OUR WHITE ROBES AND KEEP OSP CLEAN!

I don't mind being beaten by people on a higher ping than me, it happened in OSP, why would it be any different now.

I don't mind CPMA, but how can all of you pro-CPMA'ers not atleast grant us the fact that sometimes the game feels down right dodgy.

Its one of those things thats hard to put into words but OSP always felt 'solid' to me where as CPMA (vq3) has this air of floatiness to it, its quite horrible some times ;(

I could do this in osp to you. I could do it in cpma to you, in ra3 to you, in team arena to you.

YOU JUST SUCK.



I don't know why anyone would want the lag osp has. I played that crap for years, and now cpma. Only whiney babies who can't move on or even scared to are complaining.

lemme guess... youre not playing with a high ping accidently and comment therefore in favour of cpm?

surprise surprise

time for you to start hacking, it's also a great advantage.

Just curious, why is it not playable with cpma?

Because the movement is ever so slightly different and the netcode makes it harder to cap because vq3 ctf is stupid.

so aside from the slight movement difference (which i guess makes everyone a cripple!) the problem is the incredible hax netcode so people can get hit like they are on lan with 50 ping.

oh wait, 50 ping cpma = lan = osp on lan. Guess people have been wasting time with osp ctf lan tournies for years now. damn noobs...

how dare cpma recreate such an abomination of lan like ctf on the internet. I propose the hanging of arqon, then burning at the stake, with scud missiles preferably.

Yeah you pretty much got it. Basically they all realise they probably don't like vq3 ctf as much as they thought they did, but they blame it on the movement rather than the netcode/aim "issues".

I still have to really notice all these movement differences. Took me like a day to adjust to the feeling at the beginning of my switch. Just like vampire says somewhere in this thread

"feeling" mind you, does not constitute me seeing any major difference. So I am still unsure what exactly these horrible, game killing movement differences are anyway.

I don't notice any difference except osp feels floatly and inconsistent.

It just feels like you have a bad circle jump at first which requires a touch more effort

if people watch the recent ASUS games they'll you can see players are moving just as good.

you really notice the difference when you go back to OSP, it appears very floaty and random.

I do prefer the slight quicker speed but that's it, everything else in CPMA is far superior.

You're incredibly naive if you think that cpma online is anything remotely close to what osp was like on lan.

I've played OSP for years and CPMA since it become the status quo and I can't understand how you think that its that good :/

I played OSP for years on lan as well. the only real difference USED to be the hitscan stuff. the feeling of it might still be different, but in a sense aim has so much improved in the scene that essentially it doesnt matter one bit anymore on lan whether it's OSP or CPMA being played. Jibo, Lugia, whoever will still be the same shaftwhore. Game scores will not differ much at all if the next ESWC would be OSP and not CPMA.

CPMA is good, even better for online play simply because a 20 ping difference will not end up being the deciding factor in a match. In OSP there were certain"thresholds" imo. Like a player with 30 ping would somehow be LPB and 50 would not be the same at all. With CPMA you won't see this sort of this stuff. For that alone I really think the mod is superior.

And RA3 splits the community too! OMG!

--

Yes, you changed to CPMA because the CPL did. If you're going to make retarded comments like "we shouldn't use CPMA just because it's better than OSP" though, you deserve to be laughed at.

Since your only "argument" is "Y CHANGE?!", explicitly REGARDLESS of quality, features, or ANY actually-valid reason, I'll offer you the only counter-argument that's moronic enough to match: "why change back?"

If you're going to make retarded comments like "we shouldn't use CPMA just because it's better than OSP" though, you deserve to be laughed at.

but CPMA is not better

Yes, why change back? Because the decision to change to CPMA was wrong and OSP games are more enjoyable to watch and play, smoother and we can play q3tourney2 then.

you are pretty stupid. :(

idd

t2 was intended for cpma (the real deal) physics :)

125 fps physics is a bug you know.

Blah blah so is strafe jumping. It's not a bug if it's a feature. This is completely besides the "CPMA > OSP" point.

so is his t2 argument?

uh obviously, it is not a given that 'being able to play T2' is the ultimate measure of how good a mod is

Actually, it was a bug in Quake 2. It was intended in Quake 3.

Actually, it was a bug in Quake 1. It was intended in Quake 2.

Uhh, two totally different glitches.

You don't get it. It's besides the point. I didn't even mention any games in my post.

Quake 1 and Quake 2 aren't games?

...Comment #116

...so?

Are you slow?
1) In comment 116 I make a point that 'some bugs can be considered features', which has nothing to do with any particular game because it's true with *all games*
2) in reply you make a 'correction which was unnecessary
3) in reply I make another 'correction' which can be argued is just as precise/relevant as yours and also reinforces my original point, which is that those games have 'movement glitches' that are different, as you point out in next post, but are still considered part of the game

enough?

125fps physics are not a feature. Period.

You're an idiot. Period. Bulletproof logic.

I wouldn't count on your logic in a gun fight.

You got me there, neither would I. That's why it's called a gunfight and not an discussion.

... or your English.

... or your brain.

OH BURN

I thought it was pretty stupid, but on the same level.

OH BURN

There's a difference between intentional features such as double jumps/strafe fumping/aircontrol and unintended consequences from some bug such as 125 fps crapsics.

It'd take a mapper 5 minutes to make the small change necessary so you could do that trick on T2. Ask Syncerror if you really want it as he has access to the originals.

I lol'd

i dont really get your point

you analyse, why ppl changed in the first place. but does it even matter? i mean, we have to live with the current situation...
it doesnt really matter that the cpl, who helped to establish cpma, is dead. if there would be no reason to use cpma, we should (and maybe would) change. but fact is, there are a lot of reasons to keep using cpma, so we dont.

ok, lets look from other side:

if CPL would choose OSP, which mod we would play now?

CPMA - who the fuck would play in a CPL event now?

I lol'd.

haha

who cares? lol

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO QUAKE3 IF CPL WOULDNT HAVE PICKED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE IN LIKE 2000?? OMGOMG PLX ZONGMD MAYEB NO TOURNAMENTS

Regardless of how you view the CPL and their decisions, the reasons that I helped select CPMA over OSP are still valid.

When you have people like arQon and his team that spend valuable man hours fixing issues to make a game more enjoyable and more tournament friendly, that carries a lot of clout. When the CPL was running the poll, I used part of the time to talk to arQon and when I mentioned some things that needed to be fixed, like the sound issues for VQ3 for MVD's to work ,he offered to fix it. That was not something that I could have gotten done with OSP.

If you think of the other tournaments that were run at the time, Winter 2006 with Q3 and CS was an entirely different tournament structure than any in 2006. With the help of arQon and CPMA, I was able to showcase ANY player that spectators wanted to watch at any point in the tournament. If someone wanted to watch Joe Schmoe play in round 1, they could via GTV. For once, there was GTV for Q3 and HLTV for CS for every single match of the tournament. Combined with the ability for demos and the greatness of GotfragTV for some showcase matches, and I think that the tournament was at least one of the most spectator friendly in 2006.

Chris Moncivalles

but there is no fact that they made the game more enjoyable. The game lost its smoothness in comparison to OSP.

btw MVD sound isnt fixed? at least its still bugged.
The MVD demos or MVD-spectating per GTV is a bit ugly, "twitched", so I would prefer 2 GTV connected to the server to be able to watch both players (many tournaments did this) and not MVD.

I dont want to dismiss all the work behind this, but what I am trying to say is : is the game better with CPMA? I say "no".

I do agree that there are still some issues, but there are a lot LESS for a tournament organizer to help showcase the game. Resources are not always easy to come by and to make a tournament that's as user friendly as possible and as spectator friendly as possible can sometimes be a challenge.

My belief was that in order to appeal to the MOST q3 players for the 06 season, that it had to be as friendly to setup as well as the most compatible. I did not want to use something that would exclude most people from getting back into the game for the season so while many of the pros got used to OSP which didn't have very good online netcode, since CPMA could get you close to there while having the enhanced netcode that allowed us to run qualifier and mini tournaments, we chose to go with that.

Also, you have to realize that to have 2 GTV's per server when you're running 16 matches at once is a tremendous amount of work and resources. The fact that without MVD you couldn't just put the GTV's into the servers and leave them means that for every single match, you had to have someone manually go in and set the camera for each player for each match. That's one thing that MVD really helped with.

You can't please all of the people all of the time. I'm sure that for some of the elite or the older players, it might not have felt as smooth but that also let some of the newer 1v1 players at least get a taste of trying to compete on the same platform.

Good debate. :)

No problems with MVD or GTV twiching here. Upgrade?

"I dont want to dismiss all the work behind this, but what I am trying to say is : is the game better with CPMA? I say "no"."

Do you have absolutely, any, at all, objective reason to why you think CPMA is worse than OSP? No, "smoother" doesn't count. If you think it does, you're a moron, because "hey, I think CPMA is smoother". Who wins? We already had a poll about this, Christ.

you should all shaddap and let the king choose (me) and i choose OSP!! DAM DADAD DAAAAAAAAAA i win :<

Go fix your tourney system !

Just give me my shaft back and i can live with cpma/vq3 ....KTHX

cpma teams focus lies mainly on promode.
osp was mainly vq3.

you are right with the cpl decicion, but that is because
most quake players who still play regularly are looking up
to high prestige tournaments and wanna play the same
mod.

if eswc and asus or other big vq3 tournaments would change
to osp most vq3 people will switch back to osp.
personaly im sure you can see in the mods itselves where the developers have their priorities.
osp had other mainpoints than cpma - and tbh i think they are
more connected to the way vq3 players think,see and feel in the
long run.

another thing are the players - only few people play both vq3 and promode and like both nearly the same.
i dont think vq3 players can expect from people who prefer another gameplay type the full support in every situation.
or from promode developers a great heart for vq3 - all has been said in past... if we look through the sites.

osp is not developed atm.
dunno if quakelive will change this or take over the work or if it will take cpma as a source.
i think osp should be the mainsource in gameplay, style and thinking but not refusing some nice things out of cpma.
im used to both mods and pm1 and vq3 - and even if not i have made the experience that often programs are good in what they tell as their mainpriorities - no secret.

so in many cases a supernintendo emulator is worse than the real snes. and a multiemulator is often worse than the standalone snes emu.

ofc cpma is in developement till now - so good features got into vq3 too. but still i see the maincore of osp was more focused on
vq3 and compare for example the developement of promode.
gameplay is often changed, its more about finding a better gameplay in each version than to stay on the same system.
the whole thinking and the aim is a different one to vq3.
2 different ways and styles ofc with a mainroot and many connections.

in theory it would be possible to have a single mod for both gameplays where both parties are very satisfied.
atm i think vq3 and quakelive should first focus on the osp vq3 line and cpma on the cpma standalone release with its idea of a perfect promode gameplay.
maybe when both parts are strong independently they can be put together in a very big game, but without limiting eachother like now.
one interface looking like one game, but inside several working mods for example.

as another example:
sometimes i play clanarena, and since cpma 1.44 i have to get rid of the new cpma files because most clanarena players prefer older settings (fastrail) and the servers still are 1.43 out of that reason.
sure for people like me who sometimes play different games or mods its not very comfortable, but it tells that the best solution can be for the players who are used to one gameplay to keep a special version.
i have seen this alot not only in quake, in other games too.
changes in mmorpgs as an example, some changes were even that big that i didnt like to play a certain game any longer. k nothing new for most players.

"cpma teams focus lies mainly on promode.
osp was mainly vq3."

What the hell are you talking about? Do you not understand how this works? There are game rules, physics, and than there are things like netcode, MVD, HUD, things that have fuck to do with promode. OSP focus wasn't on VQ3, it was on everything BUT vq3, because VQ3 CAN'T BE CHANGED. This is exactly like in CPMA, except, like you said, osp "WAS". Past tense. Didn't even read past those lines. Beeh.

jeez. just because you didnt read through his whole post to at least try to understand what he wants to say, you spew out yet another of your famous insults. ppl can´t always clearly express what they rly want to say, especially when its not their native language.

read it again if you´re really willing to (try to) understand his arguments, it´s not always that hard to follow if you show some decency and respect.

cpma = cpm + vq3 + etc pp
osp = vq3

easier now?

Thats not entirely true. The movement change did change vQ3 albeit indirectly. In cpm even if you dont know how to execute perfect circle jump but know how to keep your speed and momentum up the change is very minor but in vQ3 the change keeps hitting you over and over again because of the restrictions in the movement itself.

Now if this change was implemented by a modteam focusing only to vQ3 gameplay such as OSP, dont you think they would have deemed finding a satisfying solution a top priority instead of using their manpower to fix and tweak totally different game mode?

Ah fastrail was removed as well, i was wondering why there were so many 1.43 servers..i kept mine just because of the shaft.
"CPMA is still under developement" is not a good reason, with every release they remove/change the little things that matter (I still miss /currenttime).

Of course 1.45 received a big fix with rocket splash and that would be the only good reason to upgrade..which kinda reminds me of microsoft and its direct X 10 version that only works with vista :)

if you press tab you have the clock in the lower left corner..

I know that, but i want to have it displayed in my console so i know when stuff happened when i view it later on (or in condump).
A good alternative would be a timestamp in console, which i think was already proposed a few times before.

uhh.. so if you see the real life time in your condump and then calculate when the game started to see when stuff happened in the demo?

anyhow that's a stupid reason for not having it at tournament play. its not like it should change anything in online/offline tournaments.

sure people who see that their commands which they used for years are changed are not satisfied, me neither.

but:
even the most oldschool vq3 osp fan can see that osp can be made better than now. so developement is only "bad" when it changes to the "worse".
i dont think people would have a problem with integrating some high resolution textures into osp as an option. so you can play osp the old way or the new highres(faithful) way for example like in quakeworld.
ofc the texturepack should not be forced on the servers, so 56kb modem players dont have to download it before playing.

or why not add a defrag mode into osp? who would have a problem with this idea.. not many.
or adding the thinshaft out of cpma, some osp players use the thinshaft zoom so why not adding a true thinshaft without zooming ? not replacing the old shafts - that would be problematic with most osp players again.

and thats only one difference - many cpma players are used to many "drastic" changes in a relatively short time period.
-------------
somehow i expect a solution of dx10 for older os the next years.

CPMA brings superior quality and gives 60 ping players a chance vs 20-30 pings. Im not going to extend about this for the 10000 time so read the changelogs.
Going back to OSP only because of the almost unnoticeable movement change and the "omg, I get shafted by 60 pings?!" is COMPLETELY retarded.

Please shut up already about this. Everything works, get used to what is working.

After 9 years of Quake 3 on the market CPMA finally got a slice of the cake. From the once so bright Quake 3 community only remnants remain like with any other game. At this point in time I couldn't care less what it used.

Fun thing is, the superior mod drove on the side-track for 8 years, but most likely people wont see a big deal in that, I don't see it either. In modern days time, it a standard that something oh-so-superior fails miserably to something so damn inferior... oh wait.. wrong.

I prefer osp because I don't have to callvote 1,000 times and don't wanna spend a lot of time to learn all "cool" VQ3 console commands, because I'm lazy lol
I think people like CPMA better because the netcode, so they can compete online, but there is the hacking possibility, which gives online competitions low value, imo, whatever the mod
what I don't get it is why is it selected for LANs, where netcode doesn't matter for the players, like ESWC
to me multiple view is just annoying, I use to load demos in seismovision playlist, then watch demos, laying on the bed, when I have vq3 demos I have to get up and change povs

You lazy fucker :)

to me multiple view is just annoying

stop failing life for once pls

you don't even play q3, so fuck off

u

Huh? It's a totally valid point he's making, I find watching split screen quake disgusting.

Its why I refuse to play console games split screened, it looks like shit. And so does multiple povs in a demo.

Follow the top fragger or capper - hard, innit?

turn it off then?!

I do, that was my point.

I was just saying to you that the person who originally brought it up was making a valid point by saying its ugly.

If his point was that he is too stupid to disable something he doesn't like, then yes, his point is valid.

funnay, in osp u need to learn those cool vq3 commands while in cpma u can just set them up in menu.

you fail.

no offence but that's probably the most stupid thing i've read today.

first of all, i believe that server admins can set your favorite gametype by default on the servers so you dont have to "callvote 1000 things", that's not the mods faults its the admins fault.

second of all, how should people practise if not online? are you saying its a bad thing that i can play someone from, lets say, german without playing on his neighbors server if im from sweden? because thats the way it usually goes in osp. with cpma you get more freedom when it comes to online play. I'm gona go ahead and say 90%+ of the quake games played are online. so it does matter.

are you saying that people should practise in one mod and then compete in the other where things are a bit different? i guess you don't have much experience with high end gaming then.

you dont have to change pov in mvd. if you pick one when the demo starts it will stay there if you dont have follow powerup.

are you saying you have a problem with choice? dont you think everyone should pick whatever pov THEY want?

first of all, i believe that server admins can set your favorite gametype by default on the servers so you dont have to "callvote 1000 things", that's not the mods faults its the admins fault.

I think the problem is if you vote another map, all the things you voted for before are changed back to default.

if that is correct then you should post on promode.org forums and say so. that's the beauty of a mod still in development, things can be fixed.

It was brought up before and dismissed.

url?

It's by design. The server goes back to standard after map voting (VOTING, not map restart!).
It's only one or two votes (/cv gameplay <vq3|cpm> and sometimes /cv mode <1v1|tdm|ctf|etc>) and therefor 5secs of work (or less).

then it should be fixed.

Again, it's by design. You don't fix things which aren't broken.

what you mean by design?!

It's so that servers reset to the correct settings as made in the server config instead of someone having to guess all the votes that have been called to re-set it to default gameplay.

why not set proper settings in server config then?

Are you thick or something?

no, i believe there is some communication problems here.

Only on your site, mate.

if its set to be vq3 in the server config it should stay as vq3 even if you change the map. if its set to cpm it should stay as cpm. is this a problem?

That's what happens.

and thats wrong(?)

I think that's how it already works..

which isn't a problem if you're playing on a CPMA VQ3 server and not getting into one that's set to CPM by default and changing settings.

only happens when your server.cfg is not setting default to VQ3, again mistake by the admin

I only do LANs and I have to set the server, and even if the options (I'd better say some of the options) are on menus, that's not the point; I still have to set stuff, but if I start osp server, I don't have to set anything

"are you saying that people should practise in one mod and then compete in the other where things are a bit different?"
I probably played less than 100 matches at all online, because the lag, so I don't know very much about online, excepting the fact that if your minimum ping is 30, or even lower, you miss a lot, which only makes self appreciation (about the skills, of course) incorrect; you might come beating everybody online and have the surprise to have your ass owned by some "medium value" online opponent when playing LAN; training on LAN is 10 times more efficient, even if you play much weaker opponents, and afaik best pro players train on LAN, not online, at least when close to a competition

"you dont have to change pov in mvd. if you pick one when the demo starts it will stay there if you dont have follow powerup. " you don't get it; that's why I said about using playlist

if you're too lazy to change a few variables i'm just not gona discuss this with you, people like you should be playing counterstrike where you're not allowed to change anything, lol.

and if you don't have any experience with online play, why are you even discussing in this thread?

also i couldnt care less about your playlist options. i can't see how speccing whoever you want is a problem. i guess you want someone to decide stuff for you. communist.

"if you're too lazy to change a few variables i'm just not gona discuss this with you, people like you should be playing counterstrike where you're not allowed to change anything, lol."
I'll just stick with osp, is that a problem ? :)

"and if you don't have any experience with online play, why are you even discussing in this thread?"
I don't have to stay and play online to understand what is going on; been there, seen what's happening and left; online competition is not serious because so many variables; what I don't get is this: when you have big quake3 names complaining about why there is no more osp, you decide to sacrifice the big cajunas for the noobs, sustaining cpma instead osp because the netcode; what you don't get is czm, zero4 and other don't need online matches to get in the mood, they trained in LANs and they will always do that; so the cpma option turns to be the undesired mod played online which come on LANs, and the reason you wanna put it here is because noobs trained on this mod online, so it would be unfair for them to choose osp instead; if you admit osp and cpma have the same gameplay, then I don't see the reason you would deny osp at ESWC (for example); I'd preffer to make the old q3 champs happy by choosing osp, then making happy 500 noobs with their cpma option, even if it would be just a placebo effect, which I doubt it is

"also i couldnt care less about your playlist options. i can't see how speccing whoever you want is a problem. i guess you want someone to decide stuff for you. communist."
ok I won't explain you once again what a playlist supposed to do
did I mention the sound issues ?

i dont care what you play but you're saying osp is better which its just plainly isnt..

they dont compete online because they can't with osp :) and people should be able to train online. are you saying its a bad thing that people can practise online? that's pretty stupid in my ears!

if you post about the issues and provide demos at promode forums the issues will be dealt with.


you act like osp has no bugs :)

what a pile of shit.

I thought on why I really enjoyed the switch from OSP to CPMA, even though I had no major complaints with OSP.

1- Simply put, I needed the netcode as a I am so damn sensitive to any ping change, and OSP REALLY was annoying even with the slightest ping change. CPMA really handles unstable pings well and I felt it was a huge improvement.

2- I did not get effected at all from the slight movement changes cpma vq3 had compared to osp. So it did not factor in with my decision.

So essentially its just the netcode.. IMO it was a really great need for the community that OSP simply did not cover. I also have to agree with posters above how it helped people to play with other parts of the world. Even allow some competetion from say America, with Europe.

For lans or the situation where everyone pinged like.. 10-20 on the net. I wouldnt have considered a change from OSP to CPMA

Improved netcode allows people to play on servers further away -> more people on servers -> A Good Thing (TM)

better netcode = stronger instant hit weapons

i don't wanna be a bitch here but the weapons are the same, people just hit more with better netcode.

I dont think that cpma netcode is better, it is kinda hacked. your LG damage is rising exponentially.. which is not normal. many OSP players needed weeks to get used to railgun after switching to cpma.

As I was trying some netsettings from CPMA on a ping 70 server I started to hit things which were untrue and I actually shouldnt hit. This makes me think a bit before I play a ping 70 guy..

wheres your proof on 'hacked'? i trust arqon more than your gut feeling. getting used to better netcode might take time yeah

there are settings for client prediction yes, whats your point? it can be turned off. its up to you

If I turn it off then I will outhacked by others, so I am forced to the netsettings.

'? i trust arqon more than your gut feeling

arqon, or at least the docs in cpma, says that if you use laghax -1 you should set your nudge to 0. But almost everyone is still using negative nudge with -1 laghax and says that it feels better so.

If I turn it off then I will outhacked by others, so I am forced to the netsettings.

it's not a hack and you're not forced to. it's prediction, sometimes it wrong and sometimes its right. you have the option to chose.

arqon, or at least the docs in cpma, says that if you use laghax -1 you should set your nudge to 0. But almost everyone is still using negative nudge with -1 laghax and says that it feels better so.

still, i trust arq more than peoples gut feeling. in cpma you dont need to use nudge if you ping under 100 so why bother.

Well there is a difference and a big at that. If i play CPMA I also notice that my accuracy almost doubles, and that targets are way easier to hit.
Most impressive is, that I hit people mid air with rockets quite a lot in CPMA while this isn't the case in OSP. Now I may be boy wonder, but this doesn't feel right to me. Also useing the LG is quite a lot easier as people already told and yes the RG shows hits where there shouldn't be any.

No point arguing this as fanboys of CPMA and even the ignorat developers will try to avoid going into reasonable talks about this and the end line will be "The net code is superior to OSP, live with it, this is how it should be". Whatever... no point reasoning, but the code is infact far from perfect.

who said its perfect?

you hit more because the netcode is better. i can't believe people still whine about good netcode lawl

I would not call a code using suspect aiming calculation techniques better

i doubt you have any idea how the coding is done. also predictions can be turned off i believe.

it is true, I did not look into the code, but the "predictions" term is pretty obvious, it is a suspect method to calculate aiming by predictions, because we can see it have undesired results
even if the predictions method is not the only thing which makes cpm netcode better, I assume it is part of this mod and have effective results in gameplay
I understand you can turn off this option but if you turn off this option netcode is still better ?

i'm not aware how it works in detail, i bet only arqon and ix does. however i know that its playable at high level with 60 ping. osp just isnt in the same way. that's the main reason i won't turn back to osp.

it must be based on this formula:
if cpma = osp / 2, then cmpa ping = osp ping / 2
:p

what exactly do you expect from a better netcode?

More green stripes in lagometer and that your accuracy drops?

funny how you ignore most posts in this thread when you dont have arguments for it

no I am not ignoring, just thought about this btw... I simply cant answer all replys, because of time. I do not decline everything, many are right.

and I've lost overview already :)

I played CPM TDM about a year after the CPMA netcode improvements, what i noticed back then was that you could hit players that moved really fast by shooting behind them with rail. I'm guessing thats what you mean with "hacked"?

You're used to OSP's 1 frame buffered state so when the shot is drawn the opponent is still where the hit occured, in CPMA because it doesn't have that 50ms of lag the shot was fired and hit at a place slightly behind where the opponent is seen by the time you see the shot. You fired the shot at the correct place to hit the opponent when they were there and the server registers it, then you get the info back by which time things have moved on.

that's the same : a change in weapon balancing favouring instant hit weapons

i can't believe you're saying good netcode is a bad thing. this shaft is how lan tournaments always work, why not use it all the time? lan shouldnt be a totally different game from online.

"i can't believe you're saying good netcode is a bad thing"

where ? lol
I'm just saying it changes (online -idd-) weapon balance
then is it for good or bad ? that's just subjective (and as vq3 isn't my cup of tea anyway, I won't give my useless opinion)

i dont get how consistency can't be good..

you don't get my point mostly because you don't want to anyway

yes the effect change when you have better ping. i agree, but i can't see how thats relevant.

mind it's just a matter of taste : if you prefered lan feeling above online vq3 netcode, weapon balance-wise, switching to cpma is all good from your pov
I'm just enlightening the difference
as for me I would like to e.g. see weapons rebalanced in ql (if this game is ever gonna have even a change from vq3, but I've nothing better to do than keeping hope anyway), and not a strong mg/lg/rail ; projectiles weapons for the fun all the way. matter of taste

i wish id would release some more info

For once I have to agree with Wata, even though it makes me feel kind of dirty. He not saying whether it's good or bad that the improved netcode changed the weapon balance, he's just acknowledging the fact that it did (which is true)

maybe i assumed wrong of him then. so many people in this thread thinks that the game changed with better netcode tho.

i did change, lol
if the weapon balance for online play changed, because ppl can now hit better than before (the effect is even more relevant for higher pings), the game has changed. its simply not the same.
although it should rather be, the way the game is played changed because of the netcode... same would be true for q1 now compared to 8 years ago, connections are way better now, so the game is played differently because different aspects of the game are affected differently by ping, so the balance between these elements changed
(i am aware of the fact that how a game is played, changes over time anyway, i am just talking about the impact of the factor ping.)

yes things change when you have "lower ping" (i know you dont get lower ping really but you get the point)
the gameplay becomes different.

is that the whole point?
why bring it up in this thread?!

yes that is (imho) the whole point
and it was brought up because the netcode is one of the most important differences between cpma and osp

so you're not really having a opinion if its for better or worse, just stating that its different.. well thats a contributor..

posting opinions in a thread like this is useless anyway...
but pointing out some arguments though, seems more usefull to me.

btw, my opinion is: adjust the weapon balance in ql, in q3 it wont change anymore, but that doesnt mean we should stop to use better netcode.... i mean dont be such babies and get used to the way better mod, cpma.

:)

I think you have been on ESR too long, discussions are not always supposed to be battles between opinions/argumentation, but sometimes just voicing of arguments or facts in order to attempt to come to a conclusion together or individually :D

everyone has an agenda mate

until they fucked the lg with a eight inch black rubber dildo.

we use cpma in order to avoid 1 hour server search and ping whines.
for internet it fits, for lan i dunno.

why cpma?

* server search doesnt take 2 hours because 5-10 ping doesnt really matter like in osp

* you get multiview demos (that you said were buggy but at least its there). you can still record in pov if you want. i bet the dev team is looking at the mvd problem.

* you can suggest features and actually make them pass, which makes it way superior on its own...

* the movement is correct. must of us oldschool q3ers got used to buggy movement in various vq3 mods (see overjump or whatever its called that defraggers exploit, it also exists in osp but not that common)

* Fully customizable hud

and many more stuff that i can't think of now...

the only reason you stick to osp is because you are afraid of change. every game or sport evolves with time and you just have to get with it. be glad that someone is actually improving your game instead of crying your eyes out about things changing. and who cares what reason it was for.. you should be happy that people chose the better mod.

dont ge me wrong here, i was once a fanatic osp fan that thought that change was no good and that i was "satisfied" with osp and that it wouldnt give me any good with change. guess what, now when i'm on the "other side" of the problem i see that change is good and playing quake now is way more fun than it was back in stoneage osp vq3.

well said, I think most of us cpm'rs have migrated from OSP originally and have since turned to the dark side :)

i would have carried on playing bothbut the 50ms + of lag in osp felt like a backwards step for me and then years later when cpma finally took over as the defacto vq3 mod i had lost all interest.

yup.. i actually said no to the nations cup in vq3 because it was played in osp :) i dont feel like having those 2 hour server searches again...

I have just checked my config to see which CPMA features I really use in comparison to OSP.

Except the Netsettings and Hud, which I am forced to use, I do not use a single CPMA feature(which isnt included in OSP)

I've checked the changelog, because it is the image of CPMAs active support, which is the main factor as I understand.

Except the RL bug, which was fixed in last release and I didnt knew this before, I couldnt find changes/fixes that affects my gameplay. I could miss some, tell me then.. but the biggest part of changes are related to CPMA's other gameplays or to fix the vq3 cpma in order to make it playable, coz it missed a lot.

what features are you talking about?
also, there's a HUD-Editor out, that let's you customize your HUD HOWEVER you want it. with 10mins time, it shouldn't be so hard to get you precious osp-hud back.

I see no reply excepting mine, lol

dont have the urge to disprove every single of your posts (since pretty much all of them have contradicting arguments) but just because YOU don't feel like using any cpma features, why should other players be denied that opportunity?

selfish much

finally!
I wanna have eye-candy player models, bring me more! :p

who cares?

CPMA is the new WMD's...

why use CPMA? because how else are you gonna play CPM? :oD

seriously though, if only we had the luxury of a such well done mod back in the day.. i can't even express how pathetic server searches was if i were to look back.. swedish clans having to argue about a server for 1½ hour and then finally end up playing on a dutch server.. wtf? :p and when we actually played on swedish servers, people were using cl_timenudge -20 with a dos-ping of 1-10ms.. ping was everything to everyone..

lol at first i thought someone bump'd a journal from like year ago...

Yeah me too. I was shocked as I read from bottom to top that people are still arguing about this shit.

No one is really arguing about this. This is bunch of people trying to reply to a moronic post without using the moronic constructs of that post but kind of failing. Those who succeed witness logic deafness and repetition of same moronic nonsense.

Reasons to use cpma:

1. Netcode - allows you to play intercontinental matches competitively.
2. Bug Fixes - uniformity in movement and item boxes, fixed railgun and rocket splash bugs.
3. MVD - what more could you ask for in demo viewing and gtv.
4. Unity - cpm and vq3 played on the same mod means that vq3 and cpm players can finally compete against each other considering we are all now used to the same netcode and mod features.
5. Superhud - obviously better than osp hud, anyone who whines about missing their osp hud has simply not browsed esr or worked out their new hud.
6. Continued Support - found a wicked bug? provide solid evidence and you still may be able to get it fixed, assuming its not some deep carmack fuck up.

Reasons to revert to osp:

1. Legacy - many people may believe CPMA's fixed movement and item boxes are not vq3, but, it's how they should have been. Now that there is no more consistency in movement and item boxes all you need to do is spend a short period getting used to it (2 days? I think we have all put in that much already...) and you are good to go.

Ok, so since it was not intended for Quake 1 to have strafe jumping we should fix that and remove it, I am sure all the Q1 players would be perfectly happy?

Quake 1 didn't have strafe jumping. The difference in any case is that movement bugs weren't so much bugs as 'features'. The physics rounding errors and item collision boxes are just wrong, not doing what they're supposed to (and you cannot have the improved CPMA netcode with the 125 rounding bug) where as the strafe jump is an unforseen effect coming from the physics engine that can no longer be considered a bug because it was understood and its inclusion was considered during Q3's design and testing.

You're comparing apples and oranges, no future id game is going to consider either having misaligned items or physics rounding bugs deliberately but they will consider strafe jumping (if they know what's good for them).

Yes I understand that and sadly you can't separate the two (movement and netcode fix), but that is the reason why I and other still prefer OSP, because of the feel of the movement, even if its bugged it works wonderfully for us and makes us happy :P If only there was away around that... For euro's that have access to tons of servers this might not be such a big deal as you can hop onto an osp server, but here we only have cpma servers. This is probably why I whine so much and end up playing vs bots in osp every now and then, just to remember what Q3 felt like in its more glorious days :`(

"because of the feel of the movement, even if its bugged it works wonderfully for us and makes us happy :P"

I find it hard to believe that that's anything more than because you're used to it so you feel in your groove. The CPMA physics feel that way to me while OSP feels brokenly floaty and freebie acceleration for poor movement.

Ye, cpma movement feels brokenly slow, bland, uncreative and uninspiring.
Different strokes for different okes I guess.

try cpm, the strafing is much faster than osp

despite think that some times the mod (or game mode whatever the fuck) feels weird/off some times, I agree that strafe jumping certainly feels faster in cpma. albiet not as fluid.

in cpm its far faster + more fluid than osp or cpmavq3

They also worked hard to fix strafe jumping just as they worked hard to fix the fps rounding errors, both of which later became features. Nobody wants "bugs" per se, but like you said if id knows what is good for them they will implement strafe jumping in their future games, but also faster acceleration than "85 fps" (or whatever you want to call it), because they wont be making it with cpm movement, as the philosophy by Carmack that spawned promode still stands.

in the beginning i hated cpma - now i got pretty much used to it. since i'm in finland for this semester (from where pings to central europe suck), i really learned to appreciate the netcode!

still, there are a few things which really suck:
With the LG, the hitsound is delayed. the higher your ping, the later the hitsound comes. i noticed that my mg and lg aim is based on what i hear... but now i use the cg_nohitbeep command with these weapons, so i can rely completely on what i see.

the rocket launcher is the biggest shit i've ever seen with cpma on the internet. only way to fight the feeling of 150 ping (even though i ping 50): cg_timenudge -15. after that the rocket is "ok".

the plasma gun is just unplayable with ping 30+. since the time i use timenudge -15, it has become a little better. in osp it was possible to hit plasma by prediction shots (aim a little bit ahead if the enemy is more distant). in cpma it just feels like the plasma has spread like the shotgun... i still haven't found a way to handle the plasma gun.

Are you talking about using timenudge in CPMA or OSP? I believe timenudge doesn't even work in CPMA.

i am talking about using the traditional timenudge in cpma. yes, it works.

Which are you using? cl_timenudge or cg_nudge?

cl_timenudge (as i said, the traditional one).
don't tell me that the laghax prediction of cpma is screwed by that. i know that. still, i definitly hit better with rocket and plasma while all other weapons remain on the same level.

Well, you said cg_timenudge, so it sounded like you were a bit confused. Does it not perform well without cl_timenudge and cg_nudge instead?

no, sir! i gave everything a try in order to figure out the best settings for me. i really dislike cg_nudge.

You do realize that what you hear is true (hit sounds) but what you see might (and a lot of times is) false (e.g. blood)?

are you asking this because it is a matter of fact that the sounds are true?
as far as i perceive it, the sounds are delayed in cpma. if you are used to cpma ping 50 or sth, try osp with the same ping for a direct comparison: you will also notice the delay i'm talking about with rail. in osp, the hitsound comes DIRECTLY when you hit the +attack button. in cpma it is delayed. it's just like sound and gfx is async.

The hitsounds are supposed to tell you when you hit an opponent. The only way to achieve that is to wait until the client (=you the player) receives the information from the server about whether or not you hit.
If you're playing on a ping of 50ms, the sound will be delayed 50ms. There is no way around it. The only way to make the hitsound instant would be to make it client side. That means that the client would decide whether or not you hit and play the hitsound accordingly. Problem with that is, since the client doesnt decide whether or not your shot will actually hit (the client only guesses), the hitsound may be false, e.g. you might hear a sound but the server decided you didn't hit or you don't hear a sound but in reality you managed to hit your opponent.

Making hit sounds client side would make them essentially worthless.

Blood is rendered exactly that way. The client guesses if a hit occures and draws blood accordingly. The only reason this is done is to conserve bandwidth, as blood isn't considered essential to the game. That's why a lot of people play with blood turned of, as it just distracts without adding useful information.

ye i know all that... BUT: how come i perceive cpma hitsounds even more delayed (since osp seems like the sound come directly on the mouseclick, in cpma they don't)??? or might that just be a mindfuck since gfx and sound are async?

Because OSP's whole world is already lagged by waiting for the next server frame while in CPMA it's the hit tones so I'd imagine it stands out more.

"The only reason this is done is to conserve bandwidth"

why not use "the information from the server about whether or not you hit." too then ? not using more bandwidth

I don't know, that would be something to ask arQon, but I can take a lucky guess:

My guess would be that whether or not a hit sound is played needs different information than whether or not blood is drawn, for example blood could depend on the type of weapon used / gibs etc whereas hitsounds only need the piece of information of whether or not a hit occured (and in cpm the amount of damage).

So in the end, you'd end up having to send twice the data anyway (or maybe even more, who knows)

I'll bet simply on "arqon and his team didn't bother yet and got better to do since"

I wonder why drawing blood isn't waiting for the same serverside hit confirmation paquet than e.g hitsound

because netcode is better lol
and if they did not fix anything in the last 2 years, they will do it on the next version

see my replay to crack above

"because netcode is better lol"
seems not good enough yet

"and if they did not fix anything in the last 2 years, they will do it on the next version"
oh, cool.

You're unlucky if your ping to central europe sucks. I get 37 to nl and 50-55 to de. The price you pay for better netcode is a slightly ruined rl feel (this too can be found in the docs).

that's the "suck" i was talking about :P
plus a few lags and packetloss sponsored by FUNET.

ye i use nudge with laghax aswell, cos the laggy feel with laghax only fucks shaft and rl aim :)

What settings do you recommend?

I've only just recently been given a pc to play on again, and after nearly 5 months not playing quake3 I can't seem to find a nice, stable list of settings for my netcode.

Suggestions?

bind F9 "cg_laghax -1; cg_nudge -2; cg_xerpClients 1; cl_timenudge 0; echo ^1HAX;"
bind F11 "cg_laghax -1; cg_nudge -60; cg_xerpClients 0; cl_timenudge 0; echo ^1CPMA NETCODE;"
bind F10 "cg_laghax 0; cg_nudge 0; cg_xerpClients 0; cl_timenudge -25; echo ^1RA3ISH NETCODE;"
bind F12 "cg_laghax 0; cg_nudge -60; cg_xerpClients 0; cl_timenudge 0; echo ^1CPMA TEST NETCODE;"

test away

(edit: these are my test values, not in any way cpma defaults)

"bind F11 "cg_laghax -1; cg_nudge -60; cg_xerpClients 0; cl_timenudge 0; echo ^1CPMA NETCODE;"

This is just going to create a warpy mess. Don't use nudge with laghax -1.

i know, but stuff hits

what if my ping to a certain server is an average 160? cg_nudge -60 and laghax -1 is fine, right?

I do not have experience of the settings at higher pings but as I understand it laghax -1 is already dynamically setting a nudge value of -160 and you're adding -60 on top which creates a mess.

now i'm confused...

based on this post/guide: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=800733

Thx to ninemil for the following info:


So, for servers under 100ms:

cl_timenudge 0 (thx to mass for the tip)
cg_lagHax -1
cg_nudge 0
cg_xerpclients 0

For servers over 100ms:

cl_timenudge 0 (thx to mass for the tip)
cg_lagHax -1
cg_nudge -(your stable ping to the server - 100ms)
cg_xerpclients 0 (suttery but more accurate) or -1 (smooth, but with greater errors)

I think the second should have read 1.

in these 200 replies, has it been said that arqon planned this whole thing long time ago to get more people into "cpm"?

for me, that means i sometimes join a server playing cpm..and i go "wtf" /quit

okok..sometimes i move around and bunnyhop :P

sounds like a fitting opponent for me. \o/

^^

I'm glad I play CPM these days so I don' t have to mess around with the physcis for VQ3 anymore :D

CPM and input and netcode , any fpsgame that has those 2 things right is great. Sadly they are extremelly rare.

lol.

CPMA isn't perfect but it is still more friendlier than osp. Sorry for wanting to have a fair game vs some low ping newb.

90% of the replies here can be ignored without a loss of information since the very most dont even play vq3. Why do you even think you´re asked to advise on how other people should play?

Even zero4, czm and cooller said they HATE cpma.

SO STFU.

Osp was and IS the best mod for q3.

/end

Zero4 played cpma for a while. Where are you getting your information?

I honestly doubt that those 3 newbs took the time to tweak CPMA to its full potential; especially zero4.

Lastly, Don't get why you should care what they think. If they said Doom3 is the best game ever, it doesn't exactly mean its true. Start thinking on your own please.

doom3 is one of the best DM games ever !!!
as you can see, thinking on my own might give undesired results :D

well doom3 have SP also but I hope jone will understand what I said :p

I think I do.

Go wash brain!

:o

you must be a german immigrant.

Speak for yourself diablo, I've always liked CPMA and I am VQ3 player. Thank god arQon implemented vq3 in the mod and fixed the sound issues with specs affecting players.
OSP had it's time and now it's dead.

You know, sometimes people make you force them to do something, even if it's for their own good. Why? Most people don't like change because they are afraid. Well, I am not afraid of change and I am certainly not afraid of stupid people.

Stupid people should SHUT THE FUCK UP AND COMPLY! Fucking sheep.

I totally agree with your post but tbh if I was someone else, I don't think I could take you serious with the name "anal justice"

Everybody plz just play whatever game you want and STFU!?

cpma has a soft and tender body, with delicious curves, whereas osp has scabs and harsh, black hair all over.

osp is too dark. i blame the Africans, but it's all the same.

osp has a big, white, fluffy beard, which contrasts with the harsh, black hair it has all over. it's simply unaesthetic.

Hitler played osp.

So did stalin.

Poor Korean kids are forced to play osp in vicious battles to the death. In Mexico. For beans.

osp has a smaller Johnson.

The guy who farted in the elevator plays osp.

If osp and cpma were women, cpma would be Jessica Alba, and osp would be Miriam.

Parts of osp's source code are actually digitalized bits of Satan's semen.

Columbia shuttle crashed because one of the guys on-board was playing osp with bots.

osp doesn't have an account on nasza-klasa.pl

Gary Oak plays cpma.

GARY OAK, FUCK YEAH.

Chuck Norris, too.

When Samwell says "what what", he means osp.

osp voted for Dubya.

And for Reagan.

And for Nixon.

osp goes "snap, crackle and barf".

etc

Gary Oak owns

awesome

As someone who played osp for years and years with 100+ ping I can tell you this much.

CPMA is a godsend. End. Full stop. Tuck and roll.

Playing OSP with 100+ ping and trying to use LG or Plasma (while not impossible) put me at a HUGE disadvantage to someone with even 75 ping.

The movement was a little VERY LITTLE offputting when I first switched. I'm pretty sure I got over that without /whine THE FIRST DAY...

Whether or not movement becomes a huge cripple on 1v1 maps I can't comment on, I'm no 1v1 player. But playing ctf and relying on my movement instead of aim for so long (as a HPB) taught me how to get around quickly. I'm not saying I'm the best but I'm no slouch. Changing to CPMA has not only allowed me (after a bit of practice *oh the humanity, yes I had to work at it*) to do everything OSP allowed. (all ctf tricks I can think of are still do-able, and all the jumps in dm6 the only 1v1 map I'm in any way familiar with are also fine) but it also made the LG and Plasma actually useful to me. I can pin someone with the LG now, I can spam plasma in the correct spots and use it to keep someone in cover, it's wonderful. For me this was nearly impossible with 100+ ping. I'm not saying it IS impossible and for those who can do it, well power to you, you're a better aimer than I am.

That leads me to believe that all the whining and complaining I see online about how it "feels weird" is just because people are spending too much time inside their own damn heads, and too little time going out and just learning to move correctly, instead of relying on the OSP float effect.

Why is it that some people immediately decide that the netcode is a "hack" instead of jumping to the conclusion that maybe what was happening before was just invisibly buggy? Why is that?

Played CPMA for the first time last week and I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about. Calling the mod a godsend etc. Seemed pretty standard and even slow IMO, compared to other mods/games (pretty much any q2/q3/q4 mod (yes i've even included q4)).

Given the choice, I'd choose OSP as CPMA seems unnecessary and bland.

Your input changed my life

I know, it's a gift. I know you will be happy with your improved life. There's no need to thank me, I know you already appreciate it.

hmmmm, im pretty sure that guns that dont work like in osp make the game slower.

This thread is comedy. :<